Q: Well, you aren’t, are you?

A: Oh, no!

Q: Okay, then. Now, let’s get started. I think I will let you lie down on the couch this time, so make yourself comfortable.

A: Could I have a pillow for my head?

Q: Certainly. Get yourself in the most comfortable position you can. Now after you are in the trance and I give you the amytal, I will ask you to count backward. And when we get to a certain point I will know it has taken effect.

A: Will I be asleep?

Q: You will feel a little drunk and sleepy, but I don’t expect that you will feel anymore asleep than you were before. You might not remember as much afterward.

Now take a real deep breath and relax. Do that two or three times. Just let yourself relax and when you are ready, why, you can hold your hand up in front of your eyes.

(PAUSE)

Okay. In a second you will feel a little punchy. We will be injecting the medication and you will feel even more drowsy than you feel at the present time. As I inject the medication, I want you to start counting backward from 100. Now. 100.

A: 100.

Q: 99. That’s it…That’s just fine. And as you continue drifting deeper, go ahead counting.

A: 80, 79, 78, 77, 76, 75, 74, 73, 72, 71.

Q: That’s good, and you can relax now and you can begin to remember important things. The events of that November evening in 1960 are becoming very clear. And as you begin to recall these events, feeling comfortable and very sure of yourself and relaxed, you find it easy to mention them, knowing that you can forget, you can remember or you can misremember as your personality needs require.

That’s it. Let’s talk about that evening as best you recall each episode. Pleasant feeling, isn’t it? Just review that evening in your mind.

A: Have I finished counting my numbers?

Q: Yes. You can tell me what is in your mind.

A: I don’t really have anything in my mind.

Q: Can you recall that evening? Anything about it, like being at Bob’s Hamburgers?

A: Uh-huh.

Q: And you decided to go to Alice Fay’s party.

A: I didn’t, uh-uh.

Q: Huh?

A: I didn’t.

Q: You didn’t? Well, what did you do?

A: I had a shake. Billy decided to crash.

Q: I see. And then what?

A: I don’t know.

Q: Didn’t you go to the party?

A: Yes.

Q: This was at Alice Fay’s, right?

A: Uh-huh.

Q: There was a fight at the party, wasn’t there?

A: Yes.

Q: Who fought?

A: Billy and Bobby and Tommy Cooper and some boys I didn’t know.

Q: And Billy pulled a knife?

A: Yes.

Q: You remember that?

A: Yes.

Q: You can see that clearly on the screen?

A: I can see it.

Q: How is Billy when he leaves the party?

A: Angry.

Q: At Tommy Cooper?

A: At rich kids.

Q: Why rich kids?

A: He yelled at me.

Q: Who? Billy?

A: Uh-huh. It scared me.

Q: What did he say?

A: It was how he hated rich kids and they didn’t have to work like him.

Q: He said that after you left the party?

A: Uh-huh.

Q: Good. You are really starting to remember. I am very proud of you. Now, where did you go from the party?

A: Uh, to the store.

Q: Where?

A: It’s open at night. Billy swiped some wine.

Q: How much?

A: A couple of bottles. And there was some in the car already.

Q: What kind of wine?

A: Cheap stuff. It made me sick later. It was so sweet.

Q: Where did you drink the wine?

A: On some side street, I think. Maybe it was near a park or a schoolyard.

Q: A park or a schoolyard?

A: Well, there weren’t houses around, you know. That’s why we went there, so no one would see us.

Q: Where do you go after you drink the wine?

A: It’s fuzzy. Home?

Q: Do you…? Look at the screen, Esther. Do you see a drag race where someone forced your car to spin around?

A: Gee, there were a lot of drag races.

Q: In this one, you were riding with Billy and Bobby and somebody came along and caused your car to spin around. You are on Monroe Boulevard.

A: Uh-huh.

Q: Do you recall that?

A: Billy got mad.

Q: Why did Billy get mad?

A: Huh?

Q: Why is Billy mad?

A: I don’t know.

Q: What does Billy do now that he is mad?

A: He followed the car.

Q: This is Richie’s car?

A: I didn’t say that.

Q: Do you remember?

A: No.

Q: But you know what Richie’s car looks like? You can see it on the screen?

A: Yes.

Q: Could the car that forced you off of the road have been Richie’s?

A: I’m not sure.

Q: Is it possible?

A: It’s possible.

Q: Okay, so Billy followed the car. Where does he go?

A: I guess I went home.

Q: You think you went home?

A: Uh-huh.

Q: In Billy’s car?

A: I don’t remember.

Q: All right. You think a little deeper. You will remember. You are there. You were there. You can remember. You are in Billy’s car. You are on Monroe. You start driving. Do you go into the park?

A: Maybe.

Q: Okay. And you are driving up a hill. Do you go past a place with a fireplace and picnic benches?

A: Uh-huh.

Q: Did the other car go past there?

A: I don’t know.

Q: But you were following them?

A: Uh-huh.

Q: Who else is with you in the car?

A: Bobby.

Q: Anyone else?

A: Maybe Roger.

Q: Roger Hessey?

A: Uh-huh.

Q: Didn’t you tell us he left shortly after you arrived at Alice Fay’s?

A: I guess so.

Q: So he couldn’t have been in the car. Look on the screen. Let your mind review that evening. Picture inside Billy’s car. Do you see it?

A: Yes.

Q: Okay. Is Roger there-in the park?

A: No.

Q: Okay. Now, you and Billy and Bobby are in Billy’s car and you are following the other car and you go past the place in the park with the fireplace and the picnic benches. Now what happens? Tell me what happens, Esther. You are past the place with the fireplace. Tell me what happens. Billy is mad. You are following that car. It is at night. What happens?

A: I saw it.

Q: You saw it?

A: I saw the car.

Q: Okay. What happens after you see it?

A: Didn’t I tell you something?

Q: Yes, you have. You have been telling me.

A: I am waking up.

Q: Yes, I know you are.

A: I thought I was sleeping.

Q: You were sleeping a bit. Now you told me you were following the car and you went past this place in Lookout Park with a fireplace and benches and you saw the car.

A: Did I say that?

Q: Yes, you did, Esther. This car ran you off the road and Billy got mad. He was mad before, after the fight.

A: Did I say that?

Q: Yes, Esther. I can play the tape back if you wish.

A: I think I need some more of that stuff.

Q: You think you need more sodium amytal?

A: Yeah. Didn’t I tell you something when I had it?

Q: Yes. You told me a lot of interesting things. But we didn’t get far enough.

A: Okay. Well, give me some more.

Q: That’s it. It is pleasant. Now you can just go ahead. We can protect you here. Nothing can happen to you, if you tell what happened. The truth.

A: Tell me what I said.

Q: You said that this car forced you off the road and Billy chased it into the park. Then you saw the car after a place with a fireplace and benches in the park.

A: Gee, I said that? Doctor, I know I am drowsy, but could you give me some more?

Q: I just did.

A: Oh. I’m sorry. I don’t remember what I was talking about.

Q: You were with Billy and Bobby in the car.

A: I’m supposed to say Billy?

Q: You are supposed to say Billy.

A: Uh-huh.

Q: Well, you are supposed to say what actually happens.

A: Right.

Q: Were Billy and Bobby there?

A: Uh-huh. I’m telling you the truth.